I don’t care about AI at all. But I don’t have any other engines. They don’t load. And AI can destroy the entire engine, judging by the reviews. But if the disconnect button appears, everyone can calm down. Then please add the built-in 3d model editor!
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The AI doesn’t destroy the entire engine. It can mess up your project but they added automatic backups to address that
I seen here comments like
“People who use AI to make games don’t learn and its wrong”
And that being one reason to remove AI for gdevelop
I need to admit i stand corrected
You guys are totally right
Such ppl are bad and gdevelop supporting it is terrible
We should totally fight it with all our might
And so i request some help from you guys
Do we also fight such ppl?
For sure he won’t learn anything
He came here for ready product which is terrible
And for sure he have no interest putting any effort into that game other than clicking and typing something
BLASPHEMY!!!
But also i need opinion
Do we fight gdevelop selling ready made products?
I mean in the end they are supporting not learning and to make matter worse they make money on that
I just wanted fair opinion before i judge this user and gdevelop
Since seems i was absolutely wrong and you guys were 100% right
And i wanted to know what to do before i go to war with such users and gdevelop
Please guide me
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I will have to say, in the end of the day if you were that person and you were replied with judgmental comments/answers would you like it? The dude is new, be supportive rather than judging man
From what we seen selling pre made assests got nothing wrong and it’s one of the way game engines get reliable income. It’s good for the engine and for the one selling too. Win Win for both Period!
i guess the biggest points to be against the AI integration is
-
the marketing, people often feel “bad” when recommending the engine because other people (vast majority) will likely see as an bad thing, and will hate or dislike. and if you mix that with the visual programming people will NEVER take gdevelop seriously, and this could cause a lot of loss to the community as an whole! like, how many extensions and games we could get by talented people that just for ethically reasons will dislike gdevelop?
-
Ethical part, Since is using generated stuff and it doesn’t have the human touch, people will see as some kind of an offense against human art and expression generally (code, logic and teaching included), people will prefer human made, human think stuff rather than not human thing.
-
Quality, the AI is based of ChatGPT as i see, and it has an pretty bad knowledge about the gdevlop documentation and misinterpret a lot of stuff of it leading to not being an good way to get information, and think if an starter should rely on that. think about yours examples, i would prefer to get an premade thing that was made by someone that knows what is doing rather by a thing that gives me fake info.
mix all of that and it doesnt help that FLORIAN uses AI on EVERY STREAM
and honestly this is more than BAD for the gdevelop community and marketing, seeing the creator of the engine, that in theory should know EVERYTHING asking AI to do an game will not give good impressions.
you can agree with it, you can disagree with it, but if you don’t prove me wrong, i wil always see as something bad COMMUNITY-WISE.
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Personally, I feel like ready-made assets are alright because they support GDevelop, the creator of the asset, and the user who purchases it.
GDevelop takes a cut & gets a user who might come back for more.
The creator of the asset also gets a cut.
The person who purchases the asset could learn from it if they want to, or just publish it as a ready made game. Personally, I think the other person who is losing if they publish it as a ready made game is themselves. When people want changes or updates, they probably won’t know what to do.
That being said, if you purchase a ready made template and read and understand the code, then I think that it’s really beneficial because you can change things and add whatever you want.
So to summarize, purchasing ready made assets is a Win-Win-Win for everyone.
As for the AI, the reason I personally don’t like it is that it drives away community members that could potentially be the most vital for GDevelop. People who dislike AI might leave instantly, people who like AI will stay and realize that it isn’t an AI engine and leave. That only leaves a small niche of people who either don’t specifically care about the AI or are willing to look into the engine even though it’s an “AI engine”. I do not necesarily have an opinion on the AI in the engine, but more of how the engine is branded. You know what I mean?
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I’d say they must be banned…In Japan you can’t do something like that…bcs…you know…they know what respect means.
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If they bought the pre made assests they have the right to use it however they wish. From we seeing the one who bought the assest is new and i’m sure he’s just testing what he can make with those assests. And even he wishes to publish a game with em why not? He has the right to do so
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License Of Assets
The Assets and all the trade marks, copyright, and other intellectual property rights related to it, still belong to the Licensor. All rights, except those granted in this License Agreement, are retained by the Licensor. The End-User shall not claim copyright or other intellectual property rights on the Assets.
The End-User can use the Assets in unlimited derivative works distributed as an app, video game, animation, serious game or other interactive media.
The End-User can use the Assets in derivate works for commercial or non-commercial purpose.
The End-User can give attribution to the original author of the Assets.
The End-User must not assert or imply that the End-User is, or that the usage of the Assets is, connected with, or sponsored, endorsed, or granted official status by the the Licensor, GDevelop France SAS, GDevelop Ltd, the Provider, the External Supplier or any other third party.
The End-User is not allowed to redistribute, sublicense, resell, lend, transfer, give away or make available the Assets in a package, bundle, library, template, website, e-commerce website or any location enabling reproduction of these assets by third parties. This applies even if the Assets have been modified or adapted.
The Licensor can choose to remove the Assets from the GDevelop Asset Store at any time. In this case, the End-User will continue to be able to use Assets the End-User bought and use them following this license agreement.
You know that actually depends on license?
And in case of that user he is 100% free to up right re sell it if he want to?
BTW
As you see
This user just want to download something and then upload it back somewhere to make money on it
Without putting ANY effort
AND HE IS 100% IN HIS RIGHT TO DO IT
And gdevelop offers one time purchase license which also allow to do it
Again user is bad for not learning anything
Gdevelop provide way for ppl to profit on games with ZERO input
We should lit our torches and sharpen our axes
Then launch on them
And this time i gonna provide helper image
Cause seems its required for some of you
I personally do not care if people re-upload pre-made templates or use Ai with zero skill to create games.
The ORIGINAL purpose of this topic was to say that the AI is being advertised too much and is being too associated with the engine.
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Snowy i know you are young but stop reading and taking everything literally and start trying to grasp context
You see for AI to be taken down either is it totally or just advertising
Gdevelop need to be provided with valid reason to do so
And so ppl jump here throwing arguments that they think will help whatever they believe is right
LIKE I MENTIONED in previous message
One argument was that AI is bad cause it allow ppl to make games with no effort
And not learn a single thing
That is why i pasted screenshot of user from discord asking
Do he need to edit one time purchase license template (but would also apply to assets) or can he just upload it as his own and make money on it
THAT IS THE PURPOSE of these products and these licenses
For you to pay for it and someone get money for it and now you can do what you want with it
SAME as we have tons of free templates on which we are free to build our games and publish them as our own
And there is NO requirement of any % of modifications we need to make to sell it
That is business model that existed for years and no one ever had problem with it
So now ppl who said that ppl who don’t learn cause of AI and just write something and do few clicks to get game from AI have 2 choices
A - Say its OK selling ready made assets/templates which we can buy and use as we please
Which will literally go against what the wrote about AI in this topic
That its bad ppl do not learn anything
And should be cut out from means to do so
or
B - Stand against it
And now we will have 2 questions
1 - Why they only bring up ppl not learning anything and gdevelop profit on it when it comes to AI
But not when it comes to any kind of assets
Cause end result is exactly the same
2 - Advocating for exactly who they are?
Cause for sure not for gdevelop and for sure not for ppl who put time and effort to make these assets and sell them
Not to mention for ppl who are unable to create such assets and need to get them from somewhere but are willing to pay for other ppl work
Proving ppl from this topic who are against AI are biased on hating AI cause there is a fab going on for hating AI
So as you see my message is very on par with this topic
And i wonder what interest you have when you try to remind me about what this topic is?
Did you just answered to something you do not understand?
Which for sure you should not do
Or you totally are aware it fits here and going just against me?
Which you also should not do
I am simply using other ppl logic against themselves
So we all can see how valid arguments they have
And if you never noticed it
That is exactly what i do each time i argue with someone
I like to argue but i always use someones else logic against them
And we can go trough every single argument i ever had here to verify that
So next time you gonna reply or comment to/on something
1st make sure you are totally aware what that message was about
And if not i gonna start reporting you for harassing ppl
And i don’t mean me here cause to me you can say whatever you want
But i seen you been doing exact same thing to other users
Where you reply to them or comment on their messages not even understanding message in question
And you make ppl feel bad cause of that they feel like they did something wrong
Where you simply did not understand initial message to begin with
Take it as sincere advice
The way I see it is …is at least they asked.
I’m pretty sure they’ll get nothing out of it personally, emotionallly, and probably financially too.
I know I’m a bit old fashioned but it’s effort that is rewarding…perhaps not always financially …but personally. You can drag an easel and a box of paints up to the top of a mountain and spend the whole day battling the elements, painting the sky, the lakes, and the mountains. Someone walks up to you …looks at you strangely, takes a picture on their phone and walks off. 5 years later they are scrolling through their photos - see the picture and can’t even remember being there.
On AI - I’m sure that some people will enjoy the process of working with it and get a lot out of it and use it creatively - but again its about being prepared to put the effort in…and not say to it ‘make something like among us’
I know I’m an old fudd but this is a world full of short cuts and for me, life is too short for unrewarding shortcuts.
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Didn’t realize that you were responding to someone else’s message, as you didn’t specifically mention them or reply.
I assumed you were responding to all of us, therefore I reminded you of the original topic based on my past reply. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
And what about it?
To whoever my reply was
Does not change the fact you replied to something YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND
And now your message is meant to justify you?
Or to prove you are out of any connection with what is being told to you?
You are pretending to be a good person doing something good where it is easy to prove to you that you are doing just wrong
Remind?
You did not even know what i was talking about and you want to remind me?
Next one will go straight to moderation cause at this point it is harassment
I can show you full conversation with that user if you really want to
It is in general channel on gdevelop discord anyway
I just did not want to name and shame that user
But any1 can go to gdevelop discord and use search function with even portion of his message to find it
And that user clearly just want to buy something forom gdevelop asset store
And then publish it on google play to make money
That is why he is asking about SINGLE use license
Cause he want to pay little and gain much and not get into trouble in the process
And still point here is
He is making NO effort same as ppl who will use AI to make games
And yet we attack ones but not others?
What is the logic behind it?
And then let’s remove AI from gdevelop
But let’s not remove assets from gdevelop
In both cases ppl pay for them to get away with NOT learning/doing something (heck some are for free)
So what is the logic behind prosecuting only one but not both?
There is no logic in such arguments and nobody needs to think hard to figure it out
And who will do what with end product is not your problem not my problem not anyone else problem but problem of ppl in question
Will they look at it everyday or once in their lifetime does not pay any role here
But i wanna show you something
There is user on gdevelop discord (and YES these screenshots are from game made in gdevelop)
Who is making minecraft clone more or less
I would say more like better version of minecraft
Who actually did it with AI help (i just don’t think gdevelop AI but i can ask to clarify)
And whatever you think about shortcuts
I don’t see you making anything even close to scope of his projects
I only see you repeating some wisdom you read somewhere
Where he is doing what he can by using any means at hand and by that making something all of us will be able to enjoy if we will be willing to
This doesn’t make sense because any of the work done by AI was not done by the person. You can’t say that you made something if AI made it for you. Now I don’t know the specifics on how much this person used it in this particular project, but it is simply not fair to criticize anyone for having a smaller scope because they aren’t offshoring a bunch of their work.
It’s a bit like criticizing a solo developer for not building a game that is as big as one made by a company of 100 people.
You say “he is doing what he can” but no, he is NOT doing any of the parts that were done by AI. That is the whole point, isn’t it? You can’t say it’s less work but also the same amount of work at the same time. Therefore, you can’t really praise someone for “doing more” when they are offshoring the workload. If their project would be smaller scope without AI, then you can praise the AI for that increase in scope, not the person.
Similarly, with your example of pre-made game that someone will publish immediately… yeah, that’s pretty lazy, and it would be wrong to praise them for creating it. They didn’t create it, they just purchased it and threw it up for sale without any effort.
In both cases there is a range of possibilities in terms of how much effort the developer actually puts in. Some people might use AI sparingly, such as to help with debugging, or purchase a few assets to fill some of the gaps in their project. Others will use AI to do as much as possible, or purchase an entire ready-made game with no intention other than to try and resell it.
Several people in this thread have not been arguing to remove AI entirely. In fact we have anecdotes of people recommending the engine and still trying to defend it when their friend was concerned about the AI aspect. Its more of a concern about the advertising. Which, I already said my personal opinion on, which is that it isn’t really my problem. If the company sees a drop in new users then I’m sure they will react. I’m not that concerned about the community falling apart over it though, maybe user count will fluctuate a bit, but again I think the staff will notice that and will pull back on the advertising which would hopefully bring people back in.
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It looks great and I wasn’t crtisizing AI at or those who use it. It looks like quite a bit of effort went into getting it right.
What I’m personally enjoying and getting the most out of at the moment is creating logic and working with variables …so that what I’m doing.
That is why i love to argue
Not cause i am A hole (well maybe i am)
But cause i just need to wait for someone use their own logic against themselves
So Magicsofa
You want to tell me that diminishing someone by how much they put into their project is NOT ok?
Exactly like Petlimpet did?
Cause you know we can like both put 1 hour into our projects and NEVER a second more
But someone in addition will use AI there
We all gonna have 1 hour of work
But someone will have more of game there
So?
And i am not talking to everyone here i strictly pointed out it was to ppl who’s argument was that ppl don’t learn/do their own work
BTW Magicsofa i see playable minecraft clone there in game of that user
I would wish you show me your games which are done by person (you actually have no idea how much that person used AI for his minecraft clone but that does not stop you from diminishing his work so i guess its fine when you do it)
@petlimpet You literally are explaining how you see someones work who used AI as lesser product
We are not here to decide who should feel what by doing what
IDK why you guys are here
But i am NOT here for sure in defense of AI
I am only here to see some arguments which make logical sense on why to remove or tone down AI
And still (this will be 172th message in this topic) i have seen NONE argument that would actually make sense
As soon as any1 will provide any argument that makes logical sense i will be 1st ahead of you smashing gdevelop door bell and yelling for them to push back AI
And just as reminder
Gdevelop getting less new users
100% valid argument i cannot even compete with that
But then we need to ask how many users stay cause or buy credits cause there is AI and now we could do some comparing
And not say well everyday you lose hair and its bad
While omitting how much hair grow back each day
LOGIC needs to work both ways not just one
And that is only thing i am trying to explain here and something i am defending here
Not some AI
eehehehe…Sure, I don’t want you to go on the attack or storm against AI in GDevelop… and I don’t want you to consider what I’m saying now as something or a valid reason to use to remove AI.
As I said above, AI is here to stay.
We could fight each other en masse, start a revolution, etc… all useless things… it will remain.
Think about when nobody wanted nuclear power, and then power plants were built anyway… it’s the same idea. It’s part of evolution and part of modern technology… like phones, solar energy, nuclear energy, etc.
In the small context of GDevelop, this might not make much sense in the short term… but it will still be an inevitable choice.
The things we’re discussing don’t really make sense in this case.
HOWEVER,
if someone uses it in its current state to gain an advantage, explore, or understand new things… that’s fair. But using it for unprofessional or unethical purposes… (legal issues? copyright? privacy? etc.) is something that must be stopped from the start, so we don’t end up in unpleasant situations later.
For example, I don’t know about your country, but in mine it is already absolutely forbidden to use journalistic, sports, educational, or photographic material of any kind for AI training.
It’s clearly anticipated when you watch them on TV.
I believe this should be taken into consideration.
to answer here
ofc i know…but what i posted is the common license of gd store(80%? of paid assets use that)